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Maybe we have different ideas of a thick tree.

I have a 40+? year old thick tree. Which means: over 1 foot diameter trunk. And I have small junipers with only 2 inches thick trunks. Which, by the way, may also be well over 30 years old.

But.. How this will pan out:

You plant it now. The plant may put on a bit shy 1 foot of growth (30cm), and your trunk will add 1/2-1cm of diamater. Next year you get double the result, and the trunk might be a respectable 4cm. Every year after that you get incremental growth. So after 3-4 year expect an increment to maybe 6cm at the base. As you have a juniper with large needles, rather than the fine-foliage chinensis variety, I would want a trunk bigger than that.

As you want to keep the biggest branches in control, you remove one every few years to allow light into the tree, and avoid the resulting stumps to get too thick.. Snipping them every time they get 2-3cm or over. So every year you have to restart a sacrifice branch to get the trunk to develop. Or you do what Auk has done: You let the top run freely, and you have a big cut mark in the top, which you have to hide, and you have to spend a lot of work growing branches lower on the trunk to get more taper. Either works. But both are projects for more than 5 years, 10 more realistically.

leatherback wrote: As you want to keep the biggest branches in control, you remove one every few years to allow light into the tree, and avoid the resulting stumps to get too thick.. Snipping them every time they get 2-3cm or over. So every year you have to restart a sacrifice branch to get the trunk to develop.

So I have to remove ONE branch and ONE branch ONLY every few years. Any growing stumps clipped back to the trunk once it get's to 2-3 cm. Every year I regrow a branch that I have taken away previously - I assume that is what is means by 'sacrifice branch'. One that has been pruned away in a previous year. This regrowing of a branch previously taken away helps the trunk to thicken.

leatherback wrote: Or you do what Auk has done: You let the top run freely, and you have a big cut mark in the top, which you have to hide, and you have to spend a lot of work growing branches lower on the trunk to get more taper. Either works. But both are projects for more than 5 years, 10 more realistically.

I thought you meant I have a big cut mark in the branch NOW. I didn't quite understand what you meant. I assume this cut will be as a result of action taken in the long term. I think I will do what you did. Sounds better. Cut away one branch every few years and re-start one that has already been cut away in a previous year.

Either way I should have my first tree finished by the age of 49. I expect that to be my last seeing as ground planting takes about 10 years to complete and to start something when 49 will therefore take me to 59. Everything is moving fine.

I have a pot which is 18.5 cm (L) x 14 cm (W) x approx 5 cm (D). All measurements are pretty much spot on and measure the space INSIDE the pot. How thick do you estimate the trunk could be to fit in a pot like that and how many years do you think it could take to get to that thickness?

leatherback wrote: Or you do what Auk has done: You let the top run freely, and you have a big cut mark in the top, which you have to hide, and you have to spend a lot of work growing branches lower on the trunk to get more taper. Either works. But both are projects for more than 5 years, 10 more realistically.

Yep, that's a bit of a concern. There are two ways to address that:
- Jin the top to make it look like it was struck by lightning. Such trees always look to me like trees of which the creator has tried to hide a big cut by jinning the top to make it look like it was struck by lightning, rather than a tree that was really... OK, I 'm lost in my own sentence now
- Carve it, and hide it behind foliage. I have some nice fine foliage at that location that should be suitable
- Choose a branch to form a new top. Oh wait, that's a third option. And a whole other technique

Anyway... I'll see next year what my next steps will be, pending on the development of the tree at that time.

Auk wrote: Yep, that's a bit of a concern. There are two ways to address that:
- Jin the top to make it look like it was struck by lightning. Such trees always look to me like trees of which the creator has tried to hide a big cut by jinning the top to make it look like it was struck by lightning, rather than a tree that was really... OK, I 'm lost in my own sentence now
- Carve it, and hide it behind foliage. I have some nice fine foliage at that location that should be suitable
- Choose a branch to form a new top. Oh wait, that's a third option. And a whole other technique

Anyway... I'll see next year what my next steps will be, pending on the development of the tree at that time.

Well, other than getting my my Juniper to a proportion and thickness good enough for a pot 18.5 cm (L) x 14 cm (W) x approx 5 cm (D) I really don't know what I want to do. But at least I have ONE idea in place so I am very happy indeed.

Please do not cut this left branch off unless you want a straight tree. Better to think about keeping it which will add movement into the trunk . cheers

The right branch can be used as a sacrifice branch a removed/jinned etc later.

It is good to prepare the roots by thinning out and removing any dead ones, any root which go straight down are not good.
If you prepare the roots this year and repot into some new medium then after 12 months or so transplant out into a prepared plot of land ,when you want to finally put it into a bonsai pot the roots will be more acepting. If you just trow it in ground as is wiothout preparation of rootmass then you may just end up with a huge tangled mess of unuseable roots which need cutting hard to be of any use.If done right now you can lessen the chances of losing a tree when it's been dug up after training in ground for many years, hope it all goes well,

Craig wrote: The right branch can be used as a sacrifice branch a removed/jinned etc later.

It is good to prepare the roots by thinning out and removing any dead ones, any root which go straight down are not good.
If you prepare the roots this year and repot into some new medium then after 12 months or so transplant out into a prepared plot of land ,when you want to finally put it into a bonsai pot the roots will be more acepting. If you just trow it in ground as is wiothout preparation of rootmass then you may just end up with a huge tangled mess of unuseable roots which need cutting hard to be of any use.If done right now you can lessen the chances of losing a tree when it's been dug up after training in ground for many years, hope it all goes well,

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I will try to figure out what the different coloured lines on the tree means. But in the meantime I would appreciate time to answer a few questions I have.

1. How do I know what dead roots look like and how should I best approach thinning out.

2. What is the best medium to pot it into prior to ground planting?

3. What is the best way to prepare the open ground?

Cheers.

Fair call, lol, the purple line , grow on forever and ever and never trim it at all, this is a sacrifice branch which when left unpruned will help put thickness into the trunk below it. This is because free growing no trimming it is going to thicken the trunk.It easily can remain and cut off as a stub later and jinned , a Shari could maybe be done from it at that stage.

The red line would make a trunkline of a tree, the higher areas are not even there yet but branches can be grown and placed there. The green outline would be the overall image of the finished tree.




Above picture represents what leatherback is trying to say,
You let the light blue line grow unhindered for a few years after cutting off at #1.
Then you cut off at #2 and allow the middle blue line to grow unhindered for a few years.
After that you cut off at #3 and allow the dark blue line to gro on for a few years cutting off at #4 at so on.
This is clip and grow method and is how a tree is grow in stages,

does it make any sense at all :silly:

Dead root on juniper are dead, rotting ,black, brown, soggy , gone.
Cut them out .
Good roots on juniper are usually red , they look alive usually with many feeder roots attatched .

Best soil is open for discussion but something that doesn't hold too much moisture for one is important. Good quality potting mix should be fine mixed into open ground . Just prepare it like a vegi patch, turn the soil , remove weeds etc, add good /better material into it like maybe some fine grit .

hope this helps a little,

Craig wrote: Fair call, lol, the purple line , grow on forever and ever and never trim it at all, this is a sacrifice branch which when left unpruned will help put thickness into the trunk below it. This is because free growing no trimming it is going to thicken the trunk.It easily can remain and cut off as a stub later and jinned , a Shari could maybe be done from it at that stage.

The red line would make a trunkline of a tree, the higher areas are not even there yet but branches can be grown and placed there. The green outline would be the overall image of the finished tree.

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Above picture represents what leatherback is trying to say,
You let the light blue line grow unhindered for a few years after cutting off at #1.
Then you cut off at #2 and allow the middle blue line to grow unhindered for a few years.
After that you cut off at #3 and allow the dark blue line to gro on for a few years cutting off at #4 at so on.
This is clip and grow method and is how a tree is grow in stages,

does it make any sense at all :silly:

Dead root on juniper are dead, rotting ,black, brown, soggy , gone.
Cut them out .
Good roots on juniper are usually red , they look alive usually with many feeder roots attatched .

Best soil is open for discussion but something that doesn't hold too much moisture for one is important. Good quality potting mix should be fine mixed into open ground . Just prepare it like a vegi patch, turn the soil , remove weeds etc, add good /better material into it like maybe some fine grit .

hope this helps a little,

It is all too much for me to take in and is hard for me to follow but I will try to simplify it for myself.

Basically I cut the right branch away (although the link marked #1 seems to indicate cutting the left branch) and leave the right branch to grow. At #2 I make cut and leave the dark blue line to grow and I cut off #3 and leave to grow. Am I right?

This ground is the back garden of my home I share with my parents. So I don't want to buy loads of big bags. If my dad has some potting soil and providing I can get just a little grit then I am good.

This might show it better for you,