名媛直播

Two years back I started the forest idea, made plenty of mistakes at first, by clipping the branches to rough, worked it out so. first some random pictures and then the last.

4 month ago







After the wire came off, I have left the tree for 5 weeks



Today I started wiring the smallest tree of 5, this was also my problem tree where the top rally was deformed and had previous crack. I manage to straighten it up without damage.It took me 7 hours today. The juniper are very brittle and easy to be damaged when small wires go on. I am happy with the result so. There are some branches that not yet line up, but this will be taking care of with new growth and clipping in the future.

here some details











more wiring will be done the next couple of days, the wire will stay on until I see that it starts growing in. 3-6 month.

they look like they'll great.

I've been hesitating to reply to this topic as, considering our history, this might be seen as an attack on you personally. It absolutely is not. I think that, when looking at our trees, we should have an open mind and accept criticism - for what it is worth. I do think on this forum we should discuss designs, and not just say "very nice job, well done". Looking at your trees and writing down what I think can be improved, helps me to train a better look at trees, and it may help others to improve their designs - by evaluating my comments and even taking them for granted and following their own plan. Do note that, while I am growing a bunch of trees for a future forest, I have only once created a forest myself, ages ago (in my early days - the trees did not survive). This is just my vision, you do not have to agree.

This forest, to be honest, doesn't work for me. I don't see a forest, I see 5 plants in a pot.
There are a few things that, in my opinion, are not OK in the design, and yes, I do understand this is a work in progress.

Seems you purchased 5 trees, all the same age, all very similar. In a forest, you will want trees that are (or seem to be) different ages - some higher, some lower, some fatter, some thinner. Some of your trees have the same height, they have the same girth and look the same age.

The positioning of the trees doesn't feel right either. The trees are too close to the rim of the pot and too far apart. There's not enough space 'outside' the forest, making it look unnatural and without perspective. In that aspect, the 'four months ago' composition looked better.

The trunks of the trees are quite straight - but your branches are twisted. Doesn't feel right.

There is a lot of foliage, or better: a lot of branches - far too much for my taste. It makes the composition very 'busy'. The viewer doesn't know where to focus. In other words, "You can't see the forest for the trees".

The complete composition looks too symmetrical. The distance between the trees looks the same (though that could be the photo). There should be more variation in the distances. The trees should form a group, the center of that group should not be the center of the pot - but it is now, again making the composition too symmetrical.

You wrote you use thicker wire than necessary. On one of the photos it is clearly visible why that is not always a good idea - when the wire is too thick, the result will be that the branch gets twisted around the wire, in stead of the wire holding the branch in place (I have to add though: I don't really care about perfect wiring. If it does its job, that's fine and actually, my own wiring sometimes looks pretty awful - worse than yours ). Perfect wiring is needed only for show-ready trees). I do think you need to improve on your wiring though, I see quite a few 'gaps'.

While in a forest design, tapering is far les important, branch size is. The branches of your trees all have the same length, while they should gradually decrease in length, the higher the branch is.

Compare with this group of also 5 junipers. This one does work for me:



Again, this is not an attempt to disrespect your composition. It's a good start, but it does need improvement.

hmmm, cogs in my head turning

It is true I bought these plants all the same size, the problem in Jakarta is getting Juniper in different sizes, if you can get them at all. The next problem is that they in pure rice husk medium and they been grown in the mountains of Bogor, temperatures differ at night by 8-15 degrees at night, that when you try repotting them in Jakarta where it is hot and less humid they just die off. With the ones that survive you can work. I had 10 trees 5 survived, I tried again 2 survived.

The pot and how the trees are arranged is nothing what I think of doing with them. The arrangement definitely needs to change, but here the reason why. I planted the trees also to gain experience on how to work those, it's a different when you got one tree you can turn around or you have to wire such smal branches in close quarters, these experiences alone is a good learning curve for me. Again it's a training pot, I mentioned this in the post before!!

It started up as an experiment and the ideas of where to go came in the process, the setting was placed rough and is far from finished.

Even the number is still open, I still have a pot with 2 life and one dead tree, that will merge.

I haven't found the bigger size yet, I tried to digg some out in a friends garden, it not survived. As mentioned before they are hard to find, and the medium is a killer, if you plant it in the garden no problem but I don't wanna set them in a bucket for two years and they die, one year to get them into a pot is long enough.

The way of styles are different as the conventional because it started up as said before an experience, I bet when I am there of what I try to achieve it will turn out right.

To the style or any bonsai styles, I watched probably any Video in 5 different languages, went through all pictures on the net to get an idea.

But what inspired me are the hundreds of trees here in Indonesia, juniper/pine are 1-3% of them. Because they try to do things out of the box.

I have also a favor for aqua scapeing, there I have seen my idea where I wanna go with the arrangement. I spend some time as a boy in a pine, spruce forest, and I remember very well that the branches where plenty, where the base was needle free and only the ? had foliage, curved branches are also not uncommon, at least of what I have watched. It is interesting how many different forest there are that could lead to ideas that we all have not started to explore. Mix forest deciduous and needle plants together for excample.

To the wiring, I wire as you said not for a contest, rather to get things done. I know I can improve, but I get my results that way too. What I have noticed since i wired the Juniper, the branches spring back, toward the upright position and getting straight on the small branches in a very short time after the wire comes off, that is one of the reason I wired more downward. The wiring on the last tree however should come to the final aproach, I think 2-3 mor times before the branches stay and have build enoug hard wood.

I appreciate all your comments and also others and I hope I explained my view on this.

I am very eager to learn and I am convinced that learning never stops. Thank you for taking the time to put me in the right direction. I definitely will include your advice in my all over process.

Just one more thing I am still try to learn how to understand the bonsai language and terms,

That is the reason I can't answer correct to some of the subjects, however it will come.

II found this quite interesting!

I fully agree with Auk's view. I did not want to start indo-bashing so did not reply last night.

I notice a few points in your reasoning which I think are a misconception, and are causing you the troubles. The way you work may be the result of you growing things in the tropics. However, you are working a species which does not seem to originate from the tropics: You want to go too fast.

- Wiring: Wire on Junipers typically stays on for years, not weeks. Junipers take a long time to set. Which is where the importance of proper wiring comes in: If only a few points touch the branch, these points 'dig in' much quicker

- You mention that you think growing trees for a forest planting only need a year of preparation work. Some of the best forests have been prepared BEFORE putting together, for several decades. So two years of growing is very short.

- Getting 'some trees to survive' means that it is NOT the climate that is killing the transition, it is the way they are treated. Typical way to deal with moving plants between climatic regions would be to give the plants a full year to get adjusted to the new location, before doing anything (!) to them besides fertilizing and occasional trim. Your trees reflect this: It seems like they are scale juniper. Yet they are full of needles. This is a sign you work the trees too hard.

- Composition. As Auk indicated, you have 'too much going on'. 名媛直播 is not just about replicating what you see, but also trying to bring across a specific emotion, with the least material possible. You cannot create a tree with 10M leaves on it. Yet we want to give the impression of such a tree. Same for a forest. There are 'rules' on composition. Not because of the rules, but to help you get beloevable results. First make sure you can grow bonsai according to the rules like a pro. Then break them, I think is the generic advice.

Good advise thank you, will add some comments later!