名媛直播

I was not saying every plant should be called a bonsai.. I understand it isn't but in the future may or may not be one. It's not a tree yet either , for sure. But to call it a twig is too harsh and very judgmental and condescending. It's a young plant period. It may be the language barrier not sure. I do want the truth but not given as one is high and mighty speaking from a pedestal or throne. Let's just share our thoughts as friendly advise and terms that are appropriate. Thank you for caring and sharing. No bad feelings meant at all peace to you and yours.

Nhpete wrote: Some of the more knowledgeable members (auk)

Me? Knowledgeable? That's just Google knowledge and a bit of common sense.

I'm not harsh, I'm honest. A twig is a twig. Calling it a bonsai, THAT is rude.

My reaction, by the way, is in no way pointed to the original poster.
It is the people that should know better that annoy me in this topic.

The best reaction in this topic was the one of Wisco himself:

"it is my tree/twig and my overall goal is to maintain it and keep it healthy. I'm not on this site for the true definition of bonsai and art. I believe that is something I'll learn over time. I'm a beginner and as most beginners we go through growing pains of learning. Perhaps one day this twig will be true bonsai"

This shows to me he has understood the basics - keep it alive. Learn. Develop. Look to the future.

I agree with auk, I sometimes-halvely use t'internet for ID. You have to be cruel to be. Kind.

I will just agree to disagree. If one has to be cruel to be kind this is one sad world. I hope you are not a teacher. Come on that kind of statement is flat out rubbish and thoughtless. I could say more but I will be kind and NOT cruel. Think about your words...
PLEASE.

Nhpete wrote: I will just agree to disagree.

You'll notice that when I write that it's nonsense that you have to be cruel to be kind, Bob will add a post in which he agrees with that.

I do not consider myself cruel. Leatherback has explained it a bit - I'm dutch.
If you want to know more about our quirks, you may want to read this article about

We don't beat about the bush. If your best friend has just bought a hideous dress that makes her look terrible, and she asks your opinion before she goes out to a glamorous party, you might may think you are kind by telling her it makes her look good.
THAT is real cruelty, as your best friend will look like a fool all night. We are not like that, we will be honest and will tell her she just doesn't look too good in it and that 'that other dress' she wore lately makes her look so much better.
Yes, that'll hurt for a moment, but in the long end, it will hurt less. That's what Bob meant with 'you have to be cruel to be kind' (I still do not consider it cruel though).

It annoys me that people are not honest when commenting on trees that cannot be considered real bonsai (though it could be ignorance). In practically all cases the plant will never become a real bonsai - in fact, a lot of buyers of these mallsai are the people that post topics with the title 'help, my bonsai is dying' - and it's quite likely that most of them are dead within a few months.

What annoys me more is that this seems a trend. Mallsai being praised as 'beautiful specimen' - probably by people that don't know what a real good specimen looks like - it's like the blind leading the blind - but also for commercial reasons. This is noticeable in (web)shops and on auction sites. There is one company in the Netherlands that spams Marktplaats - a dutch marketplace like Ebay - with daily loads of ads for 'top trees for the ' 'superb material from Japan' - for trees that are mass products with little or no artistic value, like this one, that they dare call a "Top chance" :



This is not a 'top chance'. The tree is by no means unique - it is a mass product, a young maple with an ugly graft. It would require many years of growth and a lot of work and then it may still not be a great bonsai.

They are not the only ones advertising. I see that other shops now are taking over this trend of using big words to describe their sub-standard trees. One of these shops even dare to call this ugly thing a 'Masterpiece':



No visible nebari, a symmetrical trunk, no taper, no branch development, and that ugly top...
Calling this a masteriece is an insult to bonsai. It's not even good starting material. You would have to cut off the top half and start all over with it.

It is quite some time ago that I read the article
At that time, I agreed with the writer:

"The fact is that Mallsai is most likely the leading cause of people becoming involved with bonsai. It exposes more people to the art of bonsai than any other source of material and, simply because of its predominance, literally millions of people are exposed to these plants every year in some way"

While Mallsai DO expose more people to these plants, these people are not introduced to the art of bonsai. People are introduced to mass-products with no artistic value, giving them the wrong idea about what bonsai really is or can be. Their tree will die after 6 months as they were given incorrect instructions and were told the tree could be kept inside. As this is months after the purchase, they will think it was their own fault and get discouraged.

I notice that many people that say they are into bonsai ("I have studied 名媛直播 for a whole 3 weeks and now I bought this beautiful Ficus Ginseng") are not really into growing bonsai, but they just want to own a bonsai tree - but they too believe the picture of 名媛直播 that is created by commerce - a picture mostly of what bonsai is NOT.

I have changed my mind about the above article, and I now (well.. partly) agree with this article:


Am I too harsh? Maybe,but that was a bit on purpose - to invoke this discussion.

I am not against people buying mallsai as their first bonsai. On the contrary. As long as you are aware of what you are really buying, it is cheap material and a way to learn to take care of a tree in a pot. I've bought my share when I started this hobby - I planted seeds, bought nursery trees, got trees from gardens, and bought mallsai so at least I had something to take care off and look at - as I had no real bonsai at all yet. They have not survived, by the way.

I do have a problem with people claiming to be knowledgeable, praising such mallsai as great material. It is not and never will be.

I do not consider myself a snob nor do I consider myself an expert. I have a few trees, and there's a reason I don't post photos of them - I personally don't consider them good enough. I have one juniper that I have been growing for 12 years (it is probably 30 - 35 years old) that I think may be presentable in one or two years from now.

I do love bonsai. I love to admire beautiful trees and being overwhelmed by real masterpieces - trees that I will never be able to create in the years I still have.

And that's why I hate this trend of mallsai, creating the wrong picture of real bonsai and making the art of bonsai look bad.

I agree with every word.Sometimes I do not answer a post because my reply would not be what the person wants to hear.But when I do it is wrong.

Same, but I sometimes am honest. Is better to be honest than to lie in the face of truth.

Also, I just have to say that this topic is possibly one of the biggest battle fields on the forum.

Thanks guys. I see your point. As long as it's done with no malice I can understand. Happy growing to all and I will just enjoy whatever I am growing anyway.

Hello Pete, if I think that is you name (sorry if it is not), but how do you mean? I do not want to pick a fight or anything, I am one of those people who cannot leave a puzzle untouched. You said "I will just enjoy whatever I am growing anyway" sorry I am just very curious.

As you said: happy growing!

Yours sincerely,

Jaimin