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Okay vinegar,s better than hydrochloride acid. So when it looks dry, don't you just soak it down? with water?

Tropfrog wrote:

Ivan Mann wrote: My water is 8.5, too. How much white vinegar do you put to a gallon (or liter, I speak metric, too). I am about to go water the azaleas.

How much acid you need to decrease ph is dependent on the carbonate hardness in you water. Not on actual ph. The acid need to break down the buffering capacity before having any measurable effect on ph.

Crud. I have spent my life avoiding chemistry and it keeps following me. OK, an experiment. I'll fill a gallon jug with water, measure the pH, put a tsp of vinegar in, stir it up, measure pH, repeat several times to see what is required to get it to 7.5 and then lower.

How long should I wait after putting the vinegar in before measuring pH?

For my metric friends, all I have is gallon jugs and teaspoon measuring spoons.

Samantha wrote:

leatherback wrote: lol. With 120 trees, I use about 150 litres per watering cycle; this is not realistic.

You really measure your water? and acid?

Of course not. It makes no sense. and I have better things to do.

I do however have large rain barrels and some days when I feel like it, I hand-water with a watering can. Simple matriculation tells me.. 7 liter can, 20-24 cans for my trees -> 150l

Samantha wrote: You really measure your water?

Me I don't measure anymore.
Moved all my plants to a new house where the tap water isn't so hard as the previous one, and I use rain water when possible.
On a side note, vinegar can kill your bonsai, even Azaleas. I speak from experience on this matter. Better to use an acid fert like Miracid:

Ivan Mann wrote:

Tropfrog wrote:

Ivan Mann wrote: My water is 8.5, too. How much white vinegar do you put to a gallon (or liter, I speak metric, too). I am about to go water the azaleas.

How much acid you need to decrease ph is dependent on the carbonate hardness in you water. Not on actual ph. The acid need to break down the buffering capacity before having any measurable effect on ph.

Crud. I have spent my life avoiding chemistry and it keeps following me. OK, an experiment. I'll fill a gallon jug with water, measure the pH, put a tsp of vinegar in, stir it up, measure pH, repeat several times to see what is required to get it to 7.5 and then lower.

How long should I wait after putting the vinegar in before measuring pH?

For my metric friends, all I have is gallon jugs and teaspoon measuring spoons.

You need to airate the water for 24 hours before performing the test. Stir after each spoon. Wait 15 min before measuring (metric time system )

I Think it is better to collect rain water and mix with tap water to get your decired ph.

Rain water just isn't an option here. We have long spells of rain and then long spells of no rain, during which heat and sunshine mean water every day and sometimes twice. I only have 40 or so trees and the weather says no rain until Sunday, and then just 30%, but that is too far in the future for the forecast to mean much. Three or four weeks with no rain is not unusual.

That would be a big barrel.

Ivan Mann wrote: That would be a big barrel.

1000 litres here

Clicio wrote:

Samantha wrote: You really measure your water?

Me I don't measure anymore.
Moved all my plants to a new house where the tap water isn't so hard as the previous one, and I use rain water when possible.
On a side note, vinegar can kill your bonsai, even Azaleas. I speak from experience on this matter. Better to use an acid fert like Miracid:

Okay, I am conflicted here. My three goto guys here were Auk, Leatherback, and Clicio. While they were sometimes inconsistent on artistic matters they never disagreed on life and death issues. Now Clicio says vinegar kills bonsai and that is what Leatherback uses.

What do I do?

In winter here when the azaleas go dormant I don't think I want to fertilize with anything, but vinegar might be the answer. If it doesn't kill them.

Help!!

Ivan Mann wrote: Now Clicio says vinegar kills bonsai and that is what Leatherback uses.
What do I do?

Nope, I didn't say vinegar kills Azaleas, I have said vinegar CAN kill plants, including Azaleas.
If diluted like 1 teaspoon/L of water, it can be used. But the ph of the soil may remain the same, depending on how hard is your water.
So after some testing, where I killed some saplings using vinegar in higher doses, I have decided Miracid was way better for Azaleas.
Nowadays I use Kanuma and Peat and Pine bark to plant Azaleas in and the ph issue is gone, as well as the Miracid and the vinegar.

Ok, here is the plan:

Do some testing with my water and vinegar to see if and how vinegar changes it.

Use Miracid for azaleas until fertilizer season is over.

Depending on results use small amounts of vinegar to bring pH down to 7.0 or so when fertilizer season is over. This will probably not be often since it usually rains all winter.

Buy a lot of kanuma to use next spring.

Find some place to put the kanuma.