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Hi everyone
I am an absolute novice when it comes to bonsai. But i would like to start by growing a japanese maple.
My question is: at what stage/ age do i need to purchase the plant in order to control trunk twists and good nebari in the future?
Do i need to start with a seedling so I can control it from day 1 or will i still be able to create extreme twists at a later stage and how late is too late?
I have seen some 4 year old trees on the internet and the trunks are very straight and i cant tell if i would still be able to bend these in extreme ways?
Also can i buy any maple seedling or do i need to buy one that has been developed specifically for bonsai even at this early stage?
(I am aware its just a normal tree and not a bonsai at the seedling stage but am unsure if there are subtle differences in the way they are grown that would create a better bonsai in the future?)
Time is not a big factor I am 30 and I want to learn to grow the bonsai with my nieces 3yrs and 5 yrs .
Thank you for any help you can give, I am aware these might sound like silly questions.

Hi, welcome to the empire.
You are off to a good start, I would say. You are asking questions first, doing things later. Safes time, imo.

My question is: at what stage/ age do i need to purchase the plant in order to control trunk twists and good nebari in the future?
-> Any age. Often trees are grown to a large size, cut back, grown out etc. So that is an option for some species (Those that backbud). Alternatively, you can bend pine, larch, juniper till very old age.
The best control you get from seed, but this is also the lengthiest and in a way hardest way to create good bonsai.

Do i need to start with a seedling so I can control it from day 1 or will i still be able to create extreme twists at a later stage and how late is too late?
-> See previous

I have seen some 4 year old trees on the internet and the trunks are very straight and i cant tell if i would still be able to bend these in extreme ways?
-> Yes and no. Most 4 year olds would be bendable. You might not get too extreme a twist though.

Also can i buy any maple seedling or do i need to buy one that has been developed specifically for bonsai even at this early stage?
-> you can buy any maple seedling. Make sure you get species that are suitable though. Some have very large leaves that do not reduce well.

Hi Leatherback, thank you for the help.
Part of the reason I am thinking about this before i buy it is because of your answer about cutting back and growing out, I understand field growing and cutting back are quicker ways to get thicker trunks however i have seen a number of videos of people doing this over time and they seem to end up with quite big scars on the trunks.
When I have looked at pictures/ videos of some specimen maples I cannot see any scaring on the trunks, have these been grown using a different technique over longer periods or are the growers just better at hiding the scars?
I have searched the internet for traditional bonsai techniques to try and find out how some of the hundreds of year old bonsai were grown but cant find much.
I want to decide on the technique I am going to use before i buy any plants so I can plan exactly what i have to do and when.
I don't have 800 years but my nieces might have 100 if they are lucky.
Again thanks for any help you can provide.

There are plenty of good books around, do not believe all you read on the internet and if you can go and pick the trees yourself rather than buying blind

Yeah, I have noticed big scars too. Questions is.. What do you mean with scars. A hole in the bark? Or closed bark with some marks in them? Especially with maples, you can get the scars to close fairly well. It does take time, but the scars will just be a few lines in the bark. Not ideal but..

Another way to work it through sacrifice branches. This will get you more, but smaller scars. I feel that is the way the best maples are grown. I know one japanese lets the cutmarks from sacrifice branches close, and then grafts branches in the scars, so the scar becomes unnoticable. But that is very high level work this guy does (He also moves fully developed branches from tree to tree)

leatherback wrote: (He also moves fully developed branches from tree to tree)

Cheater!!... Actually, I'm liking the idea and may need to investigate more... not trying to steal the thread, but I couldn't resist the thought. I do have some thread grafts planned for one of my maples for the same reasons.

Thanks every one
The scars i have seen were big holes/ craters they didn't look like they would heal over and didn't look particularly natural which is what i thought the aim was.
I think i will use sacrifice branches and maybe one cut back if i have too.
I have seen grafting but I assumed this would be frowned upon and as brkirkland said a little bit cheating?
I assumed that although there are many ways to create a bonsai there would be one (traditional) method that was seen as superior to the others but it seems everyone does it slightly differently.
I dont want to take up too much of your time so my last question would be: Does anyone know of a particular book or source of information that would tell me how some of the really old specimen bonsai were grown from start to finish? Some of the trunks are amazing and I would love to know exactly how they did it or whether they just got a bit lucky every now and then with multiple trunks etc. I have looked for books on the internet but they just look like general bonsai books.
Thanks again for everyone's help

Time. Years very many maybe hundreds. There is no substitute for time.

beeto wrote: I assumed that although there are many ways to create a bonsai there would be one (traditional) method that was seen as superior to the others but it seems everyone does it slightly differently.

Yes, that's about the size of it... Keeping it alive, is the main thing... then have fun, ... no matter what we say

Nah, it is not cheating. It is the endresult that counts.

I think you have not really looked at the 'scarless' specimens enough then. I think you will find that many of those do have scars, but the wounds have healed over. As said, almost all (all?) Acers are capable of healing wounds of 10+ cm in diameter with proper care.

The trees you see in exhibitins are often collected from nature (When they are really spectacularly tristed, and crazy branching) . When they are more the elegant refined bonsai, they are grown from seed, cutting or by being lucky, finding a good start. Or by taking a big tree, chopping it down to the basics and regrowing everything.

As you said, there are many options to do it. It is up to the owner to decide which route to follow and how they think they will get the best results. I have put a bunch of options together here: