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Hi! I have some confusion so i wanna ask people for clarification on something...

1.- Is it seen as bad practice, or even impossible or "bad" to instead of taper a tree once its old, to plant a seed and use training wires when its young?
For example, say I want a slim trunk but in an S shape like the classic upright carmona or chinese elm in S shape. In this use case, do I still want to grow the tree for 3 years, cut, then choose a branch that shapes into an s, cut, then do the opposite direction, until i have a letter S shape? Or is it a viable or common idea to instead fnd a bendable trunk that is still seedling, bend it once it can be repotted (once the roots are grown and it can take the training), then after some time redo the bending as to avoid hurting it and it becomes an S shaped tree? Why is it the common idea to point at tapering and shaping the tree from chopping an older hardwooden trunk instead of the second idea of bending a soft seedling before it hardens and let it mature in that shape?

2.- Do trunks of chinese elms, junipers etc get thicker with time? For example, say I have a younger tree, and I am content with it and its trunk, i could have it thicken, but if it doesnt thicken, it wouldnt matter to me. And say that I have it potted and presented and styled as i like it. But i know the convention is to have a thick trunk because otherwise its not a special kind of bonsai, anyone can have a young bonsai, (as i understand thats why its seen good to taper into a bonsai as opposed to train to the pot since the beginning). If i have a tree in a pot for 5 years will the trunk thicken? How much less would it get behind compared to starting from an older tree? What is an approximate idea of what to expect? I understand a smaller pot would mean the tree wont grow as tall, therefore im not 100% sure if having a tree for 5 years in a pot will let the tree mature and thicken or if i HAVE to find an already 5 year old tree and chop the trunk in order ti have a 5 year old thickness trunk because it will take 30 years in a pot to grow what it would grow in 5 on the ground :lol:

I ask these questions because after careful consideration, i feel inclined to care for one specific seedling that came out of a batch of chinese elm seeds i planted a month ago, i have some attachment to it, and I'd like to grow it into a strong tree, but i understand it might not be as easy or as straight forward as doing the recommended techniques, so i am going to still learn and practice them in other trees i have (theres 3 invasive trees i have to take care of in my backyard!), but i like the idea of training this tree from a young age and for us to grow strong together will it work? or should i, despite wanting an S shaped, not so thick, not so large tree, still, anyway, plant it in the ground for 3 years and then work on it

are there any cases when these rules can be broken?

thank you very much

If you want a s shaped tree like the common mallsai you find in garden centers you just need to do as they do in the mallsai factories. Wire up a young seadling, wait until set, remowe the wires, wait a few years. Wire branches in place and wait until set, remowe Wire done. The professionals making these trees spend less than an hour working time to produce these trees and the total time in the production greenhouse is proboably less than five years. I have bonsai as a hobby, I don't mind spending time on my trees, I find it relaxing and have no hurry. So I just aim for more interesting shapes and more taper. Better quality trees that takes more time to develop.

I see, now i understand. thank you, i will continue to experiment with better quality tree techniques in other trees to actually do proper bonsai i now get why other techniques are more praised, the term "mallsai" says it all to me :lol: