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m5eaygeoff wrote: We have a trip to Lodders every year. I have had several trees from them, and they are super. But I paid quite a lot for them. You get what you pay for.

I have a few trees from their yearly 'end of year' sales - with 50% off I found the price reasonable.
Seems they're not having one this year.

I think that mallsais are what helps bonsai centres to survive. Even when there is some plants or animal related expo around here, local bonsai centre that has some really cool trees- and owner is really skillfull bonsai artist - brings only mallsais for sale.
People passing by are more willing to pay 15-25 euros for a mallsai than some 500 euros worth shohin.
Can?t blame them I think. Everybody is trying to make a living.
Mallsai is what got me hooked on this hobby too.
I never cared for plants, but one mallsai caught my eye in DIY store when looking for a birthday present for my mom.
It costed me some 25 euros, typical S shaped one with a rock as tall as the tree.
I thought it was beautifull.
Parents killed it very soon casue they had no idea how to take care of it.
I noticed it dead in the garage a while later, and got curious about how to take care for a "bonsai".
I looked at the few pics, read few articles, and got me my own S-shaped mallsai from above mentioned bonsai centre at the "Japanese days" ehibition.
They had few real bonsai trees there as well - every one worth few hundred euros.
I could afford a mallsai for 18.
Anyway, I started to really study the matter and I am gratefull that my little mallsai helped me to start.
It got killed by spider mites this spring as you might know if you read my thread about my Penjing number 1.
So to sum things up - real bonsai is a work of art - and is not affordable for most people.
On the other hand mallsais are plants that might get people hooked in this hobby, are cheap and people can learn on them.
It is a scam to ask 60 euro for mallsai averagely priced at 15 euros, but to pay 15 for something that might bring endless joy, relax and a chance to create to someone who gets hooked is not a huge price to pay.
Therefore I do not have a problem with mallsais nor with bonsai centres selling them
Peace.

We are going to Lodders just after their open weekend in March. My last tree was a stewartia, all of a month's pension but well worth it.
I agree that most nurseries need to sell starter trees to survive, most good ones will call them just that and not bonsai.

I think that most non-bonsai people do not give a .... about how you call their "bonsai".
Except for those that register here and will fight for their right to call their mallsai a bonsai

I was hoping for that sale... I need a big pot - with some discount

Yeah, Kristof does have a point. However, I wish that shops like these would not only sell bonsai and mallsai, but also good stater material.

I'm not so sure if it helps people start this hobby. It was not a mallsai that got me interested, it was a real bonsai I saw in a shop and that totally amazed me.
I knew from the start creating something like that was not going to be quick or easy.

Looking at this forum, and all other forums I visit, most of these mallsai die soon. The person posting the question never returns. New members like Hafling ( ) are rare, unfortunately.

I understand shops have to make a living. I can't stand it though when they sell their mediocre trees as if they are masterpieces - and the price tag going with that.

I got interested when I lost my job of 17 years. I was in a pretty bad depression, spent a lot of time in the dark....literally. My wife was let go from the same company at the same time...new boss wiped the place clean of old employees. She drug me out to the local conservatory...a place I had never been. They have a nice collection of bonsai. That's where I got my interest from. Local nursery where the bonsai club meets sell the "mallsai". Oddly they keep all indoors all year around....or until they die. Some of the "mallsai" they sell come from a bonsai nursery that have pretty nice stuff....I'm guessing the "mallsai" are a quick money thing.
I think maybe the reason new people come and go quickly is because of the responses they get. They get excited about this stick in a pot, get interested and join a forum where the responses are rude and condensending and don't come back. If someone ask a question and you've answered it a hundred times, instead of being rude just don't reply.

jimib wrote: I think maybe the reason new people come and go quickly is because of the responses they get. They get excited about this stick in a pot, get interested and join a forum where the responses are rude and condensending and don't come back. If someone ask a question and you've answered it a hundred times, instead of being rude just don't reply.

I think you mistake "telling things as they are" with "being condesending".

Most people who come with these questions do not want to grow bonsai and/or have a mistaken idea about what bonsai is. They just have bought a plant which is dying. If someone comes here with a juniper cutting. Does not take time to look through the forum to see whether such a tree has been discussed, and starts claiming that thay have this great bonsai that is dying on top of the heater, it is valid to say they do not have a bonsai, and that the plant should be outside.

leatherback wrote: One of Europe's biggest importers of ÃûæÂÖ±²¥ related stuff is in the Netherlands. Their webshop sais it all, really..

But that plastic turtle for, € 12,00, what a steal